GAME OF THRONES - Season 7 thread - with SPOILERS

[derekc62]

Again... Jon Snow was brought back from the dead.
Logic really doesn't have much of a place in a fantasy realm...

[Heavy Metal Spike]

To be fair to Synn - I understand where he's coming from just because we accept the supernatural events, doesn't mean we have to forget basic things like water being wet and armour being heavy.

However, even ignoring a supernatural rescue, there are also plenty of REASONABLE / NORMAL ways he could (and likely will) survive - some of which have already been mentioned.

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[derekc62]

Okay, I'll give you that.
For the time being up seems to be up, down seems to be down, there's gravity and heavy and light objects.
But let's face it, even if he were composed entirely of lead he's still going to survive because we need him for the story.
That's really the point I'm making about logic.... That it's irrelevant to the plot.

[Tim Fortuna]

Maybe he has Velcro on his armour and it'll be easy to get off?

[ONEYE]

Agree on the "another perspective" observation . . . I mean . . . I just thought she had gas


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Gas, or Little Finger, or both?

[XOFACTO2]

In case anyone missed it, the full dragon attack scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY0q3Bhst6s

[Heavy Metal Spike]

S07E05 - Eastwatch

There we go - all that conjecture from us and it was simply resolved in the opening moments

LOVED the scene between Tyrion, Bronn & Jaime, ditto the one between John & Drogon (Daenerys SO has the hots for John now).

SO many cool characters, so many great actors, so many great moments . . . and so FEW episodes left

That final scene was like the Game Of Thrones "A-Team" walking into the snowstorm. Not sure how well their plan will come together though.

I suspect the next 2 parts are REALLY going to be adrenaline rushes, AND will hit us hard emotionally.


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[Synn]

... in the logic of the medieval world...

Umm... dragons... White Walkers... Lord of Light sorceress... The Mountain brought back from the dead...

To borrow from an old movie: Logic, we don't need no stinkin' logic...

True, but are we to then believe that the physics of weight and mass don't apply in fantasy? Wouldn't that mean then that the Mountain is technically no stronger than anyone else, and that a good brawler from Flea Bottom could toss around Danery's dragons like they were mere puppies?

[temperflash]

Bronn pulled Jamie out of the river far downstream, apparently the river current pulled them along the bottom.
Jamie's armour on closer inspection appears to be more boiled leather than anything else, not all that light but still with a bit of neutral if not positive buoyancy.
Leather armour of this type was boiled in wax to harden it and make it hold its shape after being molded to fit. Its about as buoyant as wood.
A strong current can force even heavy objects onto shore or into the shallows. I've seen ships steam engines and heavy equipment forced onto the beach by storm surges after centuries on the bottom far out to sea.

[tay666]

To be fair to Synn - I understand where he's coming from just because we accept the supernatural events, doesn't mean we have to forget basic things like water being wet and armour being heavy.

I find that funny after the 5 page discussion I got sucked into at another place about the fight between Arya and Brienne.
Some were trying to say the show runners blew it. That Arya's sword would have shattered, and there was no way she could have made the blocks she did.
Until a couple others of us pointed out that she never once blocked a blow with her sword.
At most she redirected the blade a few times, but only after Brienne was extended and Arya had already side-stepped.
Heck, for the most part she never really even used her sword.
Most of the blade contact was more for spatial sounding than anything else.
(in other words she kept tapping the Brienne's blade with hers just to get a better idea of how close, or far it was from her)
About 8 of us had a fun talk over drinks about it at faire on Saturday as well.

[derekc62]

To be fair to Synn - I understand where he's coming from just because we accept the supernatural events, doesn't mean we have to forget basic things like water being wet and armour being heavy.

I find that funny after the 5 page discussion I got sucked into at another place about the fight between Arya and Brienne.
Some were trying to say the show runners blew it. That Arya's sword would have shattered, and there was no way she could have made the blocks she did.
Until a couple others of us pointed out that she never once blocked a blow with her sword.
At most she redirected the blade a few times...

True, she never blocks a strike from Brienne's sword but she herself does strike hard a few times while parrying.

Check the time code at 1:53
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mWKRXV7gFk

Not to reignite the friendly debate but I maintain my point that plot trumps realism.

BTW, I also maintain my view from last season that Sansa's up to no good and I would not be surprised to see Jon back Gendry's claim to the throne. To me, the Jon character is one that almost always has to be pushed to action by others (War of the Bastards excepted).

[Heavy Metal Spike]

. . . I would not be surprised to see Jon back Gendry's claim to the throne . . .

But after yesterday's reveal - doesn't Jon now have a claim that rightfully trumps ALL other claims (including that of Daenerys)?

(* even though none of them know that yet *)


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[derekc62]

. . . I would not be surprised to see Jon back Gendry's claim to the throne . . .

But after yesterday's reveal - doesn't Jon now have a claim that rightfully trumps ALL other claims (including that of Daenerys)?

(* even though none of them know that yet *)


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True.
Jon is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne. It's just that the only ones to have put all the pieces together are the audience and maybe Bran.
Daenerys might have gotten a hint after Jon's interaction with her dragon.
But Jon himself doesn't know his place in the grand scheme (yet) and he may want to do the honorable thing by supporting a Baratheon.
As I said earlier, the character seems (to me at least) to not want the job of leader. It's constantly thrust upon him by others.
I'll concede however, that he does seem to be getting better at it.
And then again, plot trumps realism/logic/etc. so anything can happen

[tay666]

As I said earlier, the character seems (to me at least) to not want the job of leader. It's constantly thrust upon him by others.

Completely agree.
He doesn't want to lead. Doesn't want to be in charge.
But also realizes that someone has to be, so when thrust upon him, he does what he can.

I also agree, that given the choice, Jon doesn't want the iron throne.
He would much rather just stay in the north, where he grew up, and is comfortable.

[Crazy Joe]

So what happens when he learns of his TRUE parentage???And he WILL - next season for sure...if not this one...

[Synn]

To be fair to Synn - I understand where he's coming from just because we accept the supernatural events, doesn't mean we have to forget basic things like water being wet and armour being heavy.

I find that funny after the 5 page discussion I got sucked into at another place about the fight between Arya and Brienne.
Some were trying to say the show runners blew it. That Arya's sword would have shattered, and there was no way she could have made the blocks she did.
Until a couple others of us pointed out that she never once blocked a blow with her sword.
At most she redirected the blade a few times, but only after Brienne was extended and Arya had already side-stepped.
Heck, for the most part she never really even used her sword.
Most of the blade contact was more for spatial sounding than anything else.
(in other words she kept tapping the Brienne's blade with hers just to get a better idea of how close, or far it was from her)
About 8 of us had a fun talk over drinks about it at faire on Saturday as well.

I still don't see how a kid trained as an assassin( people who kill by stealth ) can go toe to toe with a grown skilled warrior who happens to be 7ft tall. In GOT I guess training is universal? Yes I know Arya trained with Dario( name?) "briefly" before her father was killed, and I know she tried to keep up with her minimal training with the hound, but seriously. That is one part of the show where I rolled my eyes so hard I thought I was going to go blind .

[Heavy Metal Spike]

I still don't see how a kid trained as an assassin( people who kill by stealth ) can go toe to toe with a grown skilled warrior who happens to be 7ft tall. In GOT I guess training is universal? Yes I know Arya trained with Dario( name?) "briefly" before her father was killed, and I know she tried to keep up with her minimal training with the hound, but seriously. That is one part of the show where I rolled my eyes so hard I thought I was going to go blind .

I'll have to disagree with you on that one. Given what she's been through and the training she's been exposed to, I had NO problem accepting her speed and manoeuverability could help her evade & redirect attacks.

I'm constantly amazed at the feats of dexterity, reflexes, speed, skill & flexibility displayed by us humans - and I mean in real life not the superhero/movie/TV portrayals.

The only times I've been jolted out of scenes were due to the "no-one" masks + voice-changes

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[tay666]

I still don't see how a kid trained as an assassin( people who kill by stealth ) can go toe to toe with a grown skilled warrior who happens to be 7ft tall. In GOT I guess training is universal? Yes I know Arya trained with Dario( name?) "briefly" before her father was killed, and I know she tried to keep up with her minimal training with the hound, but seriously. That is one part of the show where I rolled my eyes so hard I thought I was going to go blind .

You forgot her training in the house of the White & Black.
Not sure how much training she had, but they showed several scenes with her fighting while blind.

And she didn't really go 'toe to toe'.
At first Brienne was holding back. Until she saw how skilled Arya was.
(and she is skilled at avoiding and evading. Using her quickness to her advantage)
At that point it got real, and Brienne did knock Arya's sword away.
Arya was pretty much done at that point, and she knew it, but she was willing to take her opponent with her.

[temperflash]

Getting off into minutiae I remember a Roman historian wrote of an officer being sent to alert a Roman force that Rome was under siege.
He could only get past the enemy by swimming down river but the enemy archers had a clear shot at anyone in the water.
Since he couldn't swim in regular armor he had a breastplate made of thick slabs of cork much like the later life vests. The cork offered enough protection from arrows fired from a great distance and he survived to get the message out saving the day. Considering how much force it takes to use a cork screw its believable.
British sailors made body armor by soaking old sleeveless jackets in tar. It was especially effective if a fleece lined coat was used.
Cloth stiffened with tar is very resistant to edged weapons.
Ragnar the Viking wore bear skin pants soaked with lacquer to protect his legs. That's where he got the nick name furry breeches.

Arya demonstrated how sword fights are supposed to be fought. Clashing of steel edge to edge is flashy but stupid. Redirecting the force of the enemy's thrusts is how you put them where you want them.

[Nalissa2]

Breakdown of the Arya vs Brianne duel.

http://youtu.be/epxdxcy6dYs