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Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

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Scott M
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Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#1 Post by Scott M »

Enjoyed this immensely. Probably helps that I grew up in the Sixties and get all the pop culture references. Tarantino plays with timelines a bit - Bruce Lee dressed as Kato wouldn't have happened in '69, but the actor playing the part absolutely nails Lee's vocal cadence and physical presence. And Lee did coach Sharon Tate for her part in "The Wrecking Crew"(1968). DiCaprio, Pitt, and Robbie are all excellent IMHO, and there are good cameos from Kurt Russell, Bruce Dern, and Al Pacino. And of course, a bit of the old ultra-violence at the end, but it is over-the-top comical, and not at all what you expect.

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#2 Post by Otto69 »

Bruce Lee's daughter just stated she was very unhappy with how Bruce is portrayed in the film.
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#3 Post by LOBOREX »

Otto69 wrote:Bruce Lee's daughter just stated she was very unhappy with how Bruce is portrayed in the film.
Yep,
https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainme ... story.html
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#4 Post by Otto69 »

LOBOREX wrote:
Otto69 wrote:Bruce Lee's daughter just stated she was very unhappy with how Bruce is portrayed in the film.
Yep,
https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainme ... story.html
Yep.

"She said it “was really uncomfortable to sit in the theater and listen to people laugh” at her father."

If Tarantino made a movie where viewers are laughing about Bruce Lee, he done screwed up big time. Which wouldn't surprise me. He makes some beautiful movies, but paints his characters with an absurdly broad brush.
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#5 Post by Scott M »

Otto69 wrote:
LOBOREX wrote:
Otto69 wrote:Bruce Lee's daughter just stated she was very unhappy with how Bruce is portrayed in the film.
Yep,
https://www.nydailynews.com/entertainme ... story.html
Yep.

"She said it “was really uncomfortable to sit in the theater and listen to people laugh” at her father."

If Tarantino made a movie where viewers are laughing about Bruce Lee, he done screwed up big time. Which wouldn't surprise me. He makes some beautiful movies, but paints his characters with an absurdly broad brush.
I've always been a Bruce Lee fan and I was not the least bit offended. Of course, I'm not related to him - but the man most definitely had a very large ego. Tarantino didn't screw up, he wrote a highly entertaining scene which is of a piece in the overall tone of this movie. Nothing is taken seriously here - it's a comedic fable.

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#6 Post by Otto69 »

Here is video of the scene where Bruce Lee gets beaten by a stuntman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elf4f50_KTU

0:36 in.

Regardless of what Tarantinos intent was, or what the movie is about, one can clearly see that the skill of the real Bruce Lee is not represented here. He was used as a punching bag. I'm not saying that as a Bruce Lee fanboy, I'm saying that as someone who trained for years in Ed Parker's American Kenpo, getting a 3rd Brown belt rank. That doesn't make me an expert, but I've seen some extremely fast people in action. And I've seen various amateur videos which show how fast and strong Bruce Lee was. Bruce Lee's wife and daughter are accurate in saying that this was gross misrepresentation.
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#7 Post by resin addict »

If anyone has actually seen the movie, they know that there are lots of liberties taken with history...I was a late teenager when Bruce was still alive and was a fan of his movies prior to his untimely death, that being said, I had no problem with that particular scene in the movie...this movie wasn't about him, it was about the DiCaprio and Pitt's characters, and the scene in question was a secondary scene where Bruce Lee's character played a supporting part.
In my opinion its purpose was to build up Brad Pitt's character to show what a "bada$$" he was..."OMG, he even held his own against the great Bruce Lee...".
To say or suggest that showing him losing a fight is inaccurate is silly, we just don't know what could've happened.
And...everyone's complaining about the "2nd round"...remember that the Bruce Lee character basically wiped the floor with Brad Pitt in the "1st Round", and we don't see the results of the "3rd Round" because the competition gets called.
If the complaints are about the attitude the character projects; again, if you've watched the movie, you know it's a fairy tale (hence the title "Once upon a time...") and as stated before, Tarantino takes many liberties with history...
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#8 Post by LOBOREX »

resin addict wrote:If anyone has actually seen the movie, they know that there are lots of liberties taken with history...I was a late teenager when Bruce was still alive and was a fan of his movies prior to his untimely death, that being said, I had no problem with that particular scene in the movie...this movie wasn't about him, it was about the DiCaprio and Pitt's characters, and the scene in question was a secondary scene where Bruce Lee's character played a supporting part.
In my opinion its purpose was to build up Brad Pitt's character to show what a "bada$$" he was..."OMG, he even held his own against the great Bruce Lee...".
To say or suggest that showing him losing a fight is inaccurate is silly, we just don't know what could've happened.
And...everyone's complaining about the "2nd round"...remember that the Bruce Lee character basically wiped the floor with Brad Pitt in the "1st Round", and we don't see the results of the "3rd Round" because the competition gets called.
If the complaints are about the attitude the character projects; again, if you've watched the movie, you know it's a fairy tale (hence the title "Once upon a time...") and as stated before, Tarantino takes many liberties with history...
Shannon Lee, the daughter of the late martial arts legend, has called foul on the film for depicting her father as "an arrogant a–hole who was full of hot air and not someone who had to fight triple as hard as any of those people did to accomplish what was naturally given to so many others.” I can understand...that the two characters are antiheroes and this is sort of like a rage fantasy of what would happen "I understand they want to make the Brad Pitt character this super bad-a** who could beat up Bruce Lee," she furthered. "But they didn't need to treat him in the way that white Hollywood did when he was alive." And she has a valid point tarantino is using him the same way hollywood tried to use him.
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#9 Post by Scott M »

resin addict wrote:If anyone has actually seen the movie, they know that there are lots of liberties taken with history...I was a late teenager when Bruce was still alive and was a fan of his movies prior to his untimely death, that being said, I had no problem with that particular scene in the movie...this movie wasn't about him, it was about the DiCaprio and Pitt's characters, and the scene in question was a secondary scene where Bruce Lee's character played a supporting part.
In my opinion its purpose was to build up Brad Pitt's character to show what a "bada$$" he was..."OMG, he even held his own against the great Bruce Lee...".
To say or suggest that showing him losing a fight is inaccurate is silly, we just don't know what could've happened.
And...everyone's complaining about the "2nd round"...remember that the Bruce Lee character basically wiped the floor with Brad Pitt in the "1st Round", and we don't see the results of the "3rd Round" because the competition gets called.
If the complaints are about the attitude the character projects; again, if you've watched the movie, you know it's a fairy tale (hence the title "Once upon a time...") and as stated before, Tarantino takes many liberties with history...
Agree entirely. Lee's daughter was understandably offended by it, and it is also a highly entertaining scene which works perfectly with the tone of this clearly fictional film.
Last edited by Scott M on August 2nd, 2019, 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#10 Post by Scott M »


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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#11 Post by bucketfoot-al »

Just read an opinion piece which, while not giving away any big plot lines or the ending, calls this "the most conservative film of 2019" for its supposed anti-1960's counter-culture message ... still not gonna see it (not a fan of Tarantino) ...
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#12 Post by Scott M »

bucketfoot-al wrote:Just read an opinion piece which, while not giving away any big plot lines or the ending, calls this "the most conservative film of 2019" for its supposed anti-1960's counter-culture message ... still not gonna see it (not a fan of Tarantino) ...
Yeesh! Can you provide a link? I mean, The Manson Family is most definitely not portrayed in a positive light - how could they be? In fact, just about everybody in the movie is a self-involved poser except for Sharon Tate and Cliff Booth (Pitt).

"Conservative"? I really don't see how. :?

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#13 Post by bucketfoot-al »

Scott M wrote:
bucketfoot-al wrote:Just read an opinion piece which, while not giving away any big plot lines or the ending, calls this "the most conservative film of 2019" for its supposed anti-1960's counter-culture message ... still not gonna see it (not a fan of Tarantino) ...
Yeesh! Can you provide a link? I mean, The Manson Family is most definitely not portrayed in a positive light - how could they be? In fact, just about everybody in the movie is a self-involved poser except for Sharon Tate and Cliff Booth (Pitt).

"Conservative"? I really don't see how. :?
Here is the link: https://townhall.com/entertainment/phel ... 9-n2551065
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#14 Post by Heavy Metal Spike »

.

Boring as heck in places, but with a cast that is truly exceptional (even with 3 actors channelling a real-life Kurt Russell). Pitt is amazing, and this is the first thing I've ever seen where I could stomach DiCaprio.

Loved the ending. Caught me by surprise even though (having seen it) I realised I SHOULD have expected it (given certain plot-lines and the director's history).

It's not making any sort of political statement - just telling a fictional story with elements of fact & history (some tweaked more than others).

If you like Tarantino's stuff, go see it, but don't expect "Hateful Eight" quality because the pacing lets it down somewhat. Still better than several of his others though.

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#15 Post by Buc Wheat »

well, w/ all the babies in the world nowadays, I recall what
ol Mel Brooks said,

"...certainly can't make MY movies no more!"

:)

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#16 Post by Scott M »

Went back for a second viewing and several things jumped out at me that I didn't catch the first time - the scene with Bruce Lee is actually a flashback - or possibly even a fantasy - so Bruce Lee as Kato makes sense. Also, it totally went past me the first time that the actor playing James Stacy - star of the real life television series "Lancer" https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062577/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1 was Timothy Olyphant (Deadwood). I don't know if Olyphant has had recent plastic surgery or what but I completely didn't recognize him. And looking at IMDb, the actor playing real life director Sam Wanamaker is none other than Nicholas Hammond - who some of us remember as the star of the 1970s TV series "The Amazing Spider-Man" - and he's great in the part! Finally, the super-sexy hippie hitchhiker "Pussycat" is played by an actress named Margaret Qualley, and she has the same striking beauty and screen presence as her mother - actress Andie MacDowell.

Personally - I don't think the movie drags at all - it meanders in interesting and entertaining directions. Right now I might rate it as my favorite Tarantino - and I've seen them all multiple times, and own quite a few of them.
Last edited by Scott M on August 5th, 2019, 6:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#17 Post by Scott M »

A little background on the Bruce Lee fight scene (spoilers!)

One of the most memorable scenes in “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” finds Cliff squaring off with the legendary Bruce Lee (Mike Moh) on the set of the short-lived TV series “The Green Hornet,” which in this universe also featured Rick. The moment reveals Cliff’s formidability. If he can hold his own against history’s most famous martial-arts star, who knows what Cliff is capable of? (Murder, perhaps.)

When Bruce brags about being able to beat Mohammed Ali in a fight ― “My hands are registered as lethal weapons,” he purrs ― Cliff chuckles, in turn angering Bruce, who challenges him to an immediate standoff in front of the crew. Whoever lands on his butt after three rounds loses. But after Cliff takes a punch, he hurls Bruce into a parked car, at which point the stunt coordinators (Kurt Russell and Zoë Bell) put a swift end to the affair and kick Cliff off the set. That leaves the contest unfinished.

In the initial script, however, no one interrupted the fight. Cliff emerged a more clear-cut winner, which made Bruce the loser. That didn’t sit well with Alonzo or Pitt, who were keenly aware of Lee’s cultural renown.

“I know that Brad had expressed his concerns, and we all had concerns about Bruce losing,” Alonzo recalled. “Especially for me, as someone who has looked up to Bruce Lee as an icon, not only in the martial-arts realm, but in the way he approached philosophy and life, to see your idol be beaten is very disheartening. It really pulled at certain emotional strings that can incite a little anger and frustration as to how he’s portrayed. … There’s a certain mythology and mysticism about who Bruce Lee is, which is understandable. Being an Asian American myself, I definitely related to how Bruce was a symbol of how Asians should be portrayed in movies, instead of the old ‘Breakfast at Tiffany’s’ model that was really prevalent back in the day. … I had a difficult time choreographing a fight where he lost. Everyone involved was like, ‘How is this going to go over?’ Brad was very much against it. He was like, ‘It’s Bruce Lee, man!’”

Round 3 of the fight would have been a much longer battle in which both men kept going at each other, with Cliff eventually making what Alonzo called a “cheap-shot move” that put Bruce on his butt. But the point wasn’t to turn Bruce into the underdog, Alonzo told Tarantino. Rather, it was simply to “explain to the audience the level at which Cliff was [operating].” So Tarantino agreed to have the “Green Hornet” stunt coordinators break up the brawl before the third round, meaning no proper victor could be declared.


As for the actual fight, Alonzo spent nearly three months, on and off, training Pitt and Moh in various modes of hand combat. Then they spent more time rehearsing the specific choreography needed to make the scene look natural. At no point could the men display what Alonzo calls a “concentration face” — the phony look that actors sometimes evince when they are performing contrived stunts. “I’ve done so many movies with Tom Cruise that I know how to get people to do their own stunts,” he said. Everything we see is actually Pitt and Moh, including the uproarious car slam.


https://www.huffpost.com/entry/once-upo ... b57fc97dfa

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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#18 Post by zibbazabba »

One of the best movies I've seen in years and probably my favorite Tarantino film. I hope he does release the 4 hour version on either blu-ray or Netflix (as I've seen mentioned). There are so many hilarious scenes -- I don't know if a lot of younger viewers will catch all the references or see the humor in them, but I can't remember the last time I laughed so much.
I've been a huge Bruce Lee fan since I was a kid and I wasn't offended at all by the Bruce/Cliff fight scene.
If you don't like QT's films, you probably won't like this one either.

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#19 Post by bucketfoot-al »

zibbazabba wrote:One of the best movies I've seen in years and probably my favorite Tarantino film. I hope he does release the 4 hour version on either blu-ray or Netflix (as I've seen mentioned). There are so many hilarious scenes -- I don't know if a lot of younger viewers will catch all the references or see the humor in them, but I can't remember the last time I laughed so much.
I've been a huge Bruce Lee fan since I was a kid and I wasn't offended at all by the Bruce/Cliff fight scene.
If you don't like QT's films, you probably won't like this one either.
The only QT film I've seen is "Reservoir Dogs". Interesting film, but I have to confess that the non-stop dialogue left me a little tired by the end.

He came a little too late in life for me. His gratuitous violence is something I would have enjoyed when I was much younger. Now it just doesn't interest me. If I want violence, I'll watch a Takeshi Kitano flick. Less prolific, but MAN does Kitano make you SQUIRM in your seat when it happens!
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Re: Once Upon a Time In Hollywood

#20 Post by Otto69 »

Scott M wrote:A little background on the Bruce Lee fight scene (spoilers!)

Round 3 of the fight would have been a much longer battle in which both men kept going at each other, with Cliff eventually making what Alonzo called a “cheap-shot move” that put Bruce on his butt. But the point wasn’t to turn Bruce into the underdog, Alonzo told Tarantino. Rather, it was simply to “explain to the audience the level at which Cliff was [operating].”
Tarantino is many things; a living encyclopedia of scenes from all movies ever made (which he liberally uses to construct HIS movies from), and a visionary in bringing what he sees in his minds eye to the screen. But this is an example of just how shortsighted he must really be. There was no stuntman operating at or above Bruce Lee's level. If there was, particularly back in those days, he's the one who would have been famous, not Bruce Lee. Forget stuntmen, there were few martial artists who came close to Bruce Lee, and, admittedly arguably, none who surpassed him. In that I'm including men like Chuck Norris, Bill Wallace Jeff Speakman, Dan Inosanto, and their peers.

To me the issue here is less "does it denigrate Bruce Lee", but rather, "this shows how little knowledge and vision outside of his very myopic outlook Tarantino truly has."
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