Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?

[Jonas Calhoun]

If anything were to change about WF, I'd like 1 more day. There's just so much to do in 48 (or more if you do any of the pre-show classes!) hours and I'm exhausted for multiple days afterward. But there's an awful lot that'd have to happen to add that day.

Dan

[resin addict]

The frustrating thing when reading threads like this one is the fact that those of us who have been around for a while know there have been several other shows much closer to the east coast and west coast that have not been able to survive for the simple reason that there just wasn't local support.
Specifically I recall the "ImaginationNation" Festival in Las Vegas in 2001, 2002 & 2003...it's in Las Vegas, the cheapest place to fly into and find lodging in the country, it's a 3 hour drive from California, it was a great, fun show (imagine hanging out by a pool in Vegas in 100 degree sunny weather drinking beer with Mike Hill), yet the majority of attendees were from the Midwest and East Coast, and because of the lack of support (attendance) they just wasn't viable to keep it going...you can't expect the show producers to continue to lose money for other people's benefit.
It seems that every year after WF, there's a post that asked why WF can't be somewhere else...rather than bitch about the fact that it's too far away or not close enough to you, consider participating instead.

[resin addict]

If anything were to change about WF, I'd like 1 more day. There's just so much to do in 48 (or more if you do any of the pre-show classes!) hours and I'm exhausted for multiple days afterward. But there's an awful lot that'd have to happen to add that day.

Dan

Great idea... I dont know if it's realistic with the Hotels schedule, but I think there might be enough interest...we always drive down (7 hour -oneway drive) on Thursdays, just to have a nice relaxing day on Friday, and I noticed this year there were a lot of people I recognized that were already roaming the Hotel hallways on Thursday night.
We've got the "Wonderfest approved" classes on Fridays...maybe just some simple more organized meet and greet and/or entertainment things on Friday nights.

[tay666]

Yeah, a little more on Friday would be cool, but also hard to do.
Friday is the day for dealers to load in, and the admission booth, etc.

What I would love to see, would be the contest room stay open another hour or two after the dealers room closes. That would give people more of a chance to check out the entries. Especially the dealers who are stuck at their booth all weekend.
But I also realize that would cause problems with trying to judge the contest. It already runs pretty late at night now.

[resin addict]

...What I would love to see, would be the contest room stay open another hour or two after the dealers room closes. That would give people more of a chance to check out the entries. Especially the dealers who are stuck at their booth all weekend.
But I also realize that would cause problems with trying to judge the contest. It already runs pretty late at night now.

They could easily open the contest room at 8:00 on Sunday morning...no one (incl. dealers) is going into the Dealers Room until 10:00 on Sunday, that would give some of us who are working a table or doing a demo some time to see the entries...maybe even have it just for dealers and staff (badge reqd.) from 7:00 am until 8:00 am and then open to the public from 8:00 until 10:00 am

[beaveren]

This has always been my biggest thing with WF scheduling. Contest room is never open long enough for the amount that there is to see there. I have heard the same complaints from dealers and presenters alike. An extra hour on either Sat or Sun outside of any other scheduled activity would go a long way I think.

B

[Believe016]

There are a many great ideas on this thread. I'm of the same opinion where I think an extra day, or part of the day on Friday would be terrific, but is probably not logistically feasible.

I usually arrive Thursday afternoon, settle in, then look to participate in one of the classes on Friday. I realized this past week once I was back in NJ, that I was not able to attend one "how to" demo on Saturday or Sunday. That's not a complaint, just a nod to the quality of the show and what it has to offer.

Again, I'm not even sure the dealers could set up in time for this, but even if the dealer rooms were open just from 6pm to 10pm Friday night, maybe as part of a new early bird weekend admission price, that would allow for greater scheduling flexibility.

Now if I was being really selfish here, I would want to see the show on the same schedule as Chiller - every 6 months

[Stormheart]

First, let me say that this is not a knock against the instructors, but I would like to see some longer demo's at WF. This year, like most years, it seemed like the instructors had a really, hard time fitting everything into 60 minutes. Not every demo would need more time, but some of them (molding & casting for example) would benefit greatly from not being so rushed. I know it would be hard to set up, but I would even be willing to pay a fee for a demo that really caught my attention...maybe on Friday evening?

[the Baron]

As a member of a group that also stages a show (MFCA), I'll add that there is some inertia, if you will, to changing a venue, unless there is a truly compelling reason. I still hear from old-timers how much more they liked our show, when it was held at this or that previous venue. We went from holding it at a local college, in their field house auditorium, to having it at the Valley Forge Convention Center. The show had out-grown the previous venues, when we reached a point with close to 200 individual vendors over twice as many 8-foot tables. We stayed at the VFCC from around 1990, until last year. This year, we moved it to a smaller venue, a business-class Radisson. This time, the venue out-grew us. The convention center was bought and converted into a casino, so they aren't really interested in specialty shows, they want events that bring people in who will stay and gamble. But more importantly, the costs of the venue rose to a point where it became a question of being able to afford the venue at all. So, those are reasons to change the venue. But if there's not a compelling reason, the principle is, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". Look at the consternation among the historical wargamers, ever since the Historicon group started moving their trio of shows around.

[MadModelParty]

If I may also Interject.

After I attempted to bring back the MAD MODEL PARTY early this year...and the year of prep that went into it...I learned alot...had alot of valuable input from MANY long term participants in the hobby and attendees of the original MAD MODEL PARTYS back in the day. ( I myself was an Intern for Sideshow from 94-97 and not only attended but assisted my employers with staging those shows where ever they needed me to fill in here or there)

heres what I learned.

1. the hobby of model building is VERY fragmented, broken down by genre/ subject matter of the models in question ( sci/ fhorror/ figurative vs Vehicular / historical IPMS type model builders...... with no desire by hobby enthusiasts to "bridge the gap" to a greater degree than they currently currently coexist...

2. Figurative model builders view the hobby more in terms of the finished art resembling a collectible piece of ART so they buy kits that are more expensive, as if they are buying art...and the figurative kit producers...dont really sell their product as one would sell a Revell /Monogram kit or Bandai...but rather as an elevated...consumer-assembled piece of ART...and its not soo much about the process as it is about the end Collectible represented finished result.

3. Vehicular model builders/ historical model builders/ and military skew older.....purchase not as many expensive kits....but buy more lower priced kits and build more...and ...like IPMS encourages...spend more time on the process of achieving the accuracy and detail their life size counterparts exhibit. so the hobby/ craft of model building is more important than the final assembled piece....the final piece...is the Bonus...not the goal./..the GOAL is to model build in and of itself.

4. Both types of builders.... Figurative vs. vehicular are VERY territorial....and look down upon the other....This fragmentation inherently keeps the HOBBY of ALL THINGS model building...in a smaller / niche state.... as most common complaints I received from IPMS guys regarding table fees was that the table rentals were too expensive.... and they couldn't justify spending the money ( which was higher than the lowest IMPS tables i saw listed in the Socal area for IMPS shows and lower than the highest amount for non IMPS genre shows like MONSTERPALOOZA) for a table they couldn't get a return on from sales to their clientele.

5. The genre type figurative builders in the western area....are more hobbyist businessmen....they dont have a desire to grow their businesses like the older ( now defunked or moved on) companies that influenced us all...( Horizon, Sideshow, Screamin, Aurora, etc.) and wish to remain niche...and so....they will pay MORE money for a table at Monsterpalooza...and do less dollar sales...because they themselves are more fans ...and view shows like this as a social hangout alternative....Its not soo much about the hobby of model building itself for them...as participating the the SUBJECT matter variety type shows with like minded enthusiasts.......

A local los angeles based horror/ sci fi / fantasy model building group is currently looking at staging their own show....possibly within the next year...but since their approach is Genre-based and niche itself..... and not as broad...they will be competing with shows like Monsterpalooza, Frank and Sons and other genre based or comic book shows in the area for vendors..... and will have to pluck vendors away from those shows to fill their table quota.... and the vendors that attend will have to decide if the money they spend for a table at that show....would be better saved and spent on reserving a table at Monsterpalooza....where they get not only model builder foot traffic...but they themselves can break away from their booth to visit friends in other booths and other hobbies...and buy non model related...but similar sci fi/ horror/ fantasy products they know and love....of all kinds. and since Monsterpalooza is now TWICE A YEAR...finding a feasible slot to place the show...as vendors can wait for the big Pasadena show or the smaller Burbank show...6 months later...

now..also..being that it is a different climate hobby wise...than decades past...the original MAD MODEL PARTY had Marquee names and companies that it could list as advertising points to sell tickets..HORIZON, GEOMETRIC, SIDESHOW itself, SCREAMIN', FEWTURE MODELS and VOLKS...were all Name grabs and the moment they signed on to attend....that enticed more vendors to purchase tables...and more guests interested in the hobby...to attend...

figuratively...how many of that list is still around? nonE...in terms of model kits...there is a new crop, Pegasus, shifflet brothers, Moebius ( whos been around since the older days) and revell/ monogram , Bandai. and a few others on the vehicular front....but there is little MARQUEE value to get an extended audience of the average hobbyst/ enthusiast beyond hard core modelers... And you end up with an already smaller by nature niche show....within a niche category of hobby producers......it becomes kind of clique-ish.... and not as broad and appealingas a show like monsterpalooza....

Remember...a show like monsterpalooza....is about THE GENRE itself, and socializing....thats why vendors return year after year...even though they lose money at their tables... ( fantasy/ horror/ sci fi)...the type of genre related product is secondary. But a show like Monsterpalooza is the PLACE TO BE SEEN!! and socializing is one of the main driving forces of convention participation ...especially in the southern california area. and if you display your art...get preferential vendor treatment from the show producer and a couple extra tickets to get buddies in....its a win win...even if you dont make your money back on the table sale...

Even KIRK HAMMET of METALLICA ( a huge monster enthusiast and model collector) staged a show in SAN FRANCISCO a few years back...and there wasnt enough fiscal revenue and interest to continue the venture....



6. Also...lets not forget about terrain / climate...the west coast has better weather on average...so indoor related hobbies....are not as prevalent as they are in the eastern portions of the US where colder weather....encourages people to invest alot more into indoor hobbies since they spend much more time during the winter months...indoors.

7. There is a flood of talented artists in the hobby like there never has been before.... with that said....most of these artist want to be artists...not businessmen and women...so they only grow their business in such a way that they stay Artist first, businessmen lasts...

Lets be honest....very few artists like doing the paperwork and administrative duties business owners are forced to do...to grow their business accordingly...

8. And finally...look at all the talented artists that were big names in the figurative model building hobby in the 80s and 90's...they are no longer by and large participating in the model building aspect of the hobby...but moved on to HIgh end collectibles....where they can command a higher dollar amount in accordance to their resumes and quality of work....and sell less volume to a niche clientele with deep pockets...who don't care about model building....but collecting genre related fine art.

so...in the end.... east coast shows like Wonderfest, Jerseyfest etc...have momentum behind them and several factors that aid them in their success....that the west coast cannot compete with.....but the west coast offers a lot more non model building entertainment/ sporting and other hobbies the mid west and eastern states cannot compete with...

sincerely, Tom Steves

[tay666]

2. figurative model builders view the hobby more in terms of the finished art resembling a collectible piece of ART so they buy kits that are more expensive...and its not soo much about the process as it is about the end Collectible finish result.

3. Vehicular model builders/ historical model builders/ and military skew older.....purchase not as many expensive kits....but buy more lower priced kits...and ...like IPMS encourages...spend more time on the process of achieving the accuracy and detail their life size counterparts exhibit.

4. and both types of builders.... Figurative vs. vehicular are VERY territorial....and look down upon the other....This fragmentation inherently keeps the HOBBY of all things model building...in a smaller / niche state....

While I know this is true for the most part, somehow Wonderfest managed to bridge that gap.
It caters to both figures and hardware. And both manage to coexist peacefully with a good amount of cross over among enthusiasts.
There is something of a natural ebb and flow in regards to representation from year to year.
Some years seem to have many more hardware entries in the contest than other years.
The dealers room itself tends to skew towards figured though. Especially since Federation quit coming.

Remember...a show like monsterpalooza....is about THE GENRE itself, and socializing....thats why vendors return year after year...even though they lose money at their tables... ( fantasy/ horror/ sci fi)...the type of genre related product is secondary. But a show like Monsterpalooza is the PLACE TO BE SEEN!! and socializing is one of the main driving forces of convention participation ...especially in the southern california area

That sounds a lot like WF. A ton of social aspects to the show. Many people are long time participants and look forward to spending time with far-flung-friends.

[MadModelParty]

the reason wonderfest bridges the gap also has to do with terrain/ climate....in an area where climates are colder and your indoors...and you have less entertainment options / diversity....you are more apt to socialize with others of a shared interest though different subject matter....it almost becomes out of necessity of brotherhood....

out here in the west...community, kinship....brotherhood...doesnt hold as much sway..especially as hobbies are concerned...because of climate and diverse options...

[MadModelParty]

right now....here are a Partial list of current southern California model kit related ( or component) shows.

Monsterpalooza ( usually april and september /october-ish)
Model Kit collectors expo- Orange county ( a couple times a year july and november I believe)
Southern California Gundamn Model Contest - Fullerton- November
Orangecon ( IPMS show) fullerton- September 2017
MOdel Fest _ Ventura County- Ventura February 2018
San Diego Model Expo ( IPMS ) JUne 3rd 2017
Redcon/ Las vegas NEvada- Sept 2017
desert Classic0 Lancaster , Calfornia ( IMPS) -Oct 2017

and numerous Comic book/ collectible shows throughout the state ( San Diego Comic con being the largest)

so....with all these venues and outlets for the craft of model building to nest within.....it would appear that the west coast has ample avenues...but the interest is there to the degree it is...because it reflects the market out here for this type of hobby in general...

[tay666]

Very good point.
If there were more options in this area, thing probably would splinter a bit more.

[resin addict]

Although the most recent direction this conversation has taken is interesting, I think the original question was why Wonderfest is always in Louisville (as opposed to Chicago, or Omaha, or Denver or another city), not why is it always at the Executive West/Crowne Plaza.
But I could be wrong.

[Zeiram]

I dunno. At 115 degrees outside, working on a model in the A/C is sounding pretty good this afternoon.

[MadModelParty]

it indeed has morphed into a larger discussion that deals with size, location and reasons for model kit shows in general.

[Jesse321]

At the end of the day, regardless of location, most vendors go to shows to show their wares, sell product, and make money ... and if that last one doesn't happen, they're more than likely not going to come back, at least as vendors.

While I won't deny that seeing folks, and getting to hang out with like minded people, discussing the all aspects of the hobby at adnauseam, is one of the more fun fringe benefits ... I drive from South Florida to both Wonderfest and Jerseyfest each year, spending a ton of money in the process (u-haul rental, gas, lodging, food, table fees, not to mention wear and tear on the car, misc. shipping fees, etc.), and on top of that give up a weeks worth of my vacation time from work for each show to do it ... so, not making money, isn't an option.

Personally, I think that with the advent of social media, and ecommerce websites ... most vendors don't really "need" shows anymore. Last year when my diabetes took a turn for the worse, and doctors orders prevented me from traveling to Jerseyfest as planned, I pretty much sold what I expected to sell at the show online ... granted it took longer than had I been at the show, but I also didn't incur all the costs in traveling there. At first I was kinda freaked out, because I had invested a nice chunk of change in a couple of show debut kits, and it's always better when people get to see the product first hand. But eventually over time the kits sold and all things balanced out.

Now that being said, does that mean I'm no longer going to attend shows, no, I do it because I enjoy it, even though shows are A LOT of work for us vendors. But the moment that I can't cover the costs (and then some) of attending the shows, I would give long and hard thought about future attendance, as a vendor.

[Jesse321]

Again, I'm not even sure the dealers could set up in time for this, but even if the dealer rooms were open just from 6pm to 10pm Friday night, maybe as part of a new early bird weekend admission price, that would allow for greater scheduling flexibility.

With all due respect ... that's spoken like someone that's never had to set up for a show before.

Most vendors drive to the shows, usually arriving either late Thursday or at check in Friday (3PM), a few ship their wares in, but in either case, there's a lot of exhausting prep work that goes into setting up tables. And don't even get me started on what it takes to set up those Friday classes! Show set up usually starts at 5 o'clock on Friday afternoon (3 pm for show sponsors), and stops at (I believe) 10PM, but most aren't done until at least 7 or 8, if they're lucky.

What you're suggesting would necessitate set up to be started at 12 noon at the latest on Friday ... so that means everyone has to be there at least a day earlier, which means at least an extra day of costs for vendors as well as the show runners, as well as added extra work for the folks that run the Friday classes which they would have to step away from in order to set up. The only way I could imagine it happening would be to move the classes to Thursday, and well ... you know $$$.

Regardless, after set up everyone is usually either tired or completely exhausted, depending on your particular set up. Keep in mind, like a lot of the attendees most of the vendors aren't as young as we used to be. Whatever we couldn't finish Friday, is usually completed in a rush when we're allowed in an hour before Early Birds on Saturday. So that means after an exhausting day of set up, you're lucky to get a full nights sleep before waking up at o-dark thirty, to shower, shave and make yourself socially presentable for the general public. And keep in mind that most vendors share rooms, so there's always a line for shower and the toilet unless you rented a suite and got 2.

So making early bird on Friday night ... good luck with that, I highly doubt most (if any) vendors would go for the idea.

Now if I was being really selfish here, I would want to see the show on the same schedule as Chiller - every 6 months

Most folks in the hobby don't do this as a full time occupation, I'd say a good 90% do it as a sideline. Speaking strictly for myself, there's no way that I could (or would) commit to 4 shows a year, at least not until my home business becomes lucrative enough for me to quit my full time gig.

[Buc Wheat]

Now if I was being really selfish here, I would want to see the show on the same schedule as Chiller - every 6 months

Most folks in the hobby don't do this as a full time occupation, I'd say a good 90% do it as a sideline. Speaking strictly for myself, there's no way that I could (or would) commit to 4 shows a year, at least not until my home business becomes lucrative enough for me to quit my full time gig.

Which is why you probably don't see many kit vendors any more. At Chiller...I mean...
not like the old days.

...and Jesse's posts are great sage advice! (Saves one from trekking up the
mountain to seek the oracles!)