I agree what MadModel Party I went to Mad Model Party from 95 till 2000.
It was fun everything was new had lots dealers like he said most are gone.
The climate changed in this hobby going back to early garage kit days..
And no big companies mass producing models like before
You only a few big names now of these days.
Before Mad Model Party there Sci Cons i Pasadena
In the early 90's those were fun .. I look at Monsterpalozza..
You can't get back what once was .. and the ticket price.. ugh. I talked a friend he's in his 60's
He said I was right.. Wonderfest is last of 90's nostalgia left..
I hope it remains ...
Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Moderator: Moderators
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scuzzfink85
- Bishop of Build Ups
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Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Nostalgia can be a bad thing, especially when you are led by it.
L.K . Marks 07.
My Kung Fu is the best..
Blind ignorance can not be solved or stopped for the problem at hand.
R.T 2021
L.K . Marks 07.
My Kung Fu is the best..
Blind ignorance can not be solved or stopped for the problem at hand.
R.T 2021
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
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Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
The ONLY way it will return...is if those current producers of kits....collectively....decide to RISK more...and take their businesses up a notch in terms of quantity...marketing etc...George Stephenson did an interview a few months back or so talking about how he wasn't getting the protection from the larger license holders ( studios etc.) he was partners with over copyright infringement issues related to overseas recasts etc....
those larger companies didn't see it as worth their time because the volume of kits Geometric and other companies of that nature produced were so small...and that Asian markets didn't recognize or enforce US copyrights...it was cost prohibitive from a legal standpoint for studios to pursue legal actions against infringing re-casters..
so the only way to battle against copyright infringement...is to
1. Risk and invest in a product that is a well known license ( which is expensive but broadens your consumer base potential) . AND gets you on larger distributors radar...
2. Create and engineer your product in such a way that it cant easily be reproduced / recast ( stay away from resin casting or vinyl) and produce injection molded parts.
3. Produce enough volume to warrant a studios protection as they see if they dont...they will take a fiscal hit.
4. Market your product in such a way that the younger audience can identify with it...if LEGO ( a model based/ construction toy) is the #1 toy company in the world....then model building is STILL very relevant across all age brackets...
resin casting....if a business of this nature is to grow.....is an "entry level " means of production...it gets your foot in the door in regards to consumer product sales and marketing...but inherently has issue attached to it that keep it at low -run, high dollar status...which hobbles the company and their product be anything more than niche
if current model kit producers are risk adverse and CANNOT do this....and those producers choose to stay with it only from a "side job" perspective.... and not look to companies like revell/ monogram, round 2, MPC, amt, airfix, and Moebius....
They set the tone for the hobby and how far it grows.
Indeed....it always stay at the level it currently is....and not grow beyond that.....
those larger companies didn't see it as worth their time because the volume of kits Geometric and other companies of that nature produced were so small...and that Asian markets didn't recognize or enforce US copyrights...it was cost prohibitive from a legal standpoint for studios to pursue legal actions against infringing re-casters..
so the only way to battle against copyright infringement...is to
1. Risk and invest in a product that is a well known license ( which is expensive but broadens your consumer base potential) . AND gets you on larger distributors radar...
2. Create and engineer your product in such a way that it cant easily be reproduced / recast ( stay away from resin casting or vinyl) and produce injection molded parts.
3. Produce enough volume to warrant a studios protection as they see if they dont...they will take a fiscal hit.
4. Market your product in such a way that the younger audience can identify with it...if LEGO ( a model based/ construction toy) is the #1 toy company in the world....then model building is STILL very relevant across all age brackets...
resin casting....if a business of this nature is to grow.....is an "entry level " means of production...it gets your foot in the door in regards to consumer product sales and marketing...but inherently has issue attached to it that keep it at low -run, high dollar status...which hobbles the company and their product be anything more than niche
if current model kit producers are risk adverse and CANNOT do this....and those producers choose to stay with it only from a "side job" perspective.... and not look to companies like revell/ monogram, round 2, MPC, amt, airfix, and Moebius....
They set the tone for the hobby and how far it grows.
Indeed....it always stay at the level it currently is....and not grow beyond that.....
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
It's always easy to "risk more" when it's someone else's money, isn't it?
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
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Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Not at all.. I took a risk for MMP... financed all the Initial costs up front. No loans.. no kickstarter...and though the show ultimately didn't get staged ... what I lost in finances up front... I gained in knowledge ....and i was able to use the fiscal loss as a write off in taxes. I learned about trademark law, copyright law, now have a complete functioning business set up as a result.. Llc, etc.
so my risk...paid off. Just in the way i hadn't originally planned and I don't regret the attempt at the show at all..
Would have rather attempted it and come up short than not do it, wonder, or complain why others aren't doing it. And im still farther ahead than had i never attempted at all.
The key to any successful, growing venture is an entrepreneurial spirit. One guy.. attempting it alone... is a good start.. but in order to conquer an obstacle centered on an entire industry..you need a collective of like minds with the same outlook in regards to risk, and an entrepreneurial spirit.
I don't regret my risk at all.. because it laid a stronger foundation for other projects in also involved with.
RISK..is a good thing.
so my risk...paid off. Just in the way i hadn't originally planned and I don't regret the attempt at the show at all..
Would have rather attempted it and come up short than not do it, wonder, or complain why others aren't doing it. And im still farther ahead than had i never attempted at all.
The key to any successful, growing venture is an entrepreneurial spirit. One guy.. attempting it alone... is a good start.. but in order to conquer an obstacle centered on an entire industry..you need a collective of like minds with the same outlook in regards to risk, and an entrepreneurial spirit.
I don't regret my risk at all.. because it laid a stronger foundation for other projects in also involved with.
RISK..is a good thing.
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
I'm glad that worked well for you, and that you got some sort of value for the money you shelled out … but you're comparing apples to oranges.
Putting together a show is very different then putting together a mass produced model kit or pre-painted statue. Let’s compare … you lost what a few thousand dollars … for the sake of argument; lets say you lost $20K on putting together that show.
Now lets compare costs:
And BTW, the days of Randy Bowen being the only game in town, so he got these pieces done on the cheap are long over. Most of the factories in these countries are now actually having to pay higher wages to their workers, because the workers have figured out that they can make as much or more money working at international McDonalds, than living in the sweat shops of old. So costs are way higher now than there were back in the late 80's when companies like Bowen were making runs of 10,000 and 20,000 pieces ... most smaller companies today struggle to sell edition sizes in the 500's. Heck, even Bowen ended his company's final Marvel license barely selling 300 pieces made to order directly from their website.
First, there's the issue of licensing, depending on the subject matter, that could cost anywhere from $300.00 to $300,000.00 dollars. You can go the route of original subject matters, but they don’t always tend to sell as well, because you need something to give the buyers reference. This is why I’m working on my Graphic Novel for the Denizens of Zo, using the proceeds from the (hopefully) sales of the kits to fund the development of the GN, which will then fund the creation of the prepaints from the model kits which I already own.
Licensing .. lets go low and say $10,000 for a 3 year contract on a reasonably well enough known subject matter.
Once you've shelled out the upfront costs for the license (if any), you have to pay for the sculpture, if it's digital, you also have to pay for the printing, then molding, casting, painting of 3 samples … 1 for you to keep, 2 to go to the factory for color matching and 1 broken down clean submaster for molding. Once at the factory, there’s box engineering, "plate charges" for the housing (sponge or styrofoam) inside the boxes, and I'm sure there are a few more costs that I’m forgetting off the top of my head. Oh, and did I mention that most factories won't do runs of prepaints smaller than 250 units, with a "better" discount at 500 units? They may do a smaller run of unpainted model kits, along side a prepaint, but you're still going to be paying a lot of costs for them.
Now lets say sculpt 3K, digital printing on a nice 1/6 scale size piece 2K, molding and casting, another 2K, painting of the 3 pieces for color matching another 2K. Keep in mind, these are all lowball figures.
Box engineering, plate charges, you’re easily looking at another 4 to 5K … 250 units at 100 per (again REALLY lowball I think), so that’s 25K.
Oh, and the best part … all the factories in China and Japan (unless you're an established business) will ask for at least 50% up front, and 50% upon completion ... not delivery, but completion. Which means, you no pay, day no ship.
After that, there are freight and import fees, to get the merchandise to the US.
That’s going to run at least another 2 to 3K … so right here, your total is already up to 50K.
Keep in mind, that all of that money has to be shelled out before you even receive the product to sell.
Doing the math … 50K in costs divided by 250 units, that makes your "basic" cost of goods $200.00 per unit ... making a basic 30% mark up that means you're item is going to have to retail at, at least $260.00.
That doesn’t even take into account the advertising fees for Previews and/or other publications to promote the product. And once that’s all done, there’s the costs of employees, insurance, your time, rent for housing all that inventory until such time as it sells, packaging the product for shipping, unless you’re lucky enough to have a product large enough to come prepackaged from Asia, in which case all you have to do is slap an new label on it ... in that case .. Yay you!
Now if you want to put together an injection molded plastic model kit, you're talking way higher costs for steel molds, probably a lot more for licensing of a more familiar product that will appeal to a larger audience such as Star Trek, Star Wars or other historical vessel (not sure about the licensing costs on historical vessels to be honest), a WAY higher edition size probably numbering in the 1000's, and keep in mind, since those packages don't weigh much, you're going to get charged for "dimensional freight" ... so in the end, I would think that the costs would end up being similar, but plastic kits while higher in volume sell for way less on the open market, so you're going to have to sell a #$#$#$# ton of them to make the same amount of money as a limited prepaint.
I don't know about you, but I know very few people (at least in this hobby) that kind of working capital in the bank, and even fewer that would be willing to take that sort of gamble.
Just for the record, I’m a gambling man myself, if I had no one to answer to, I would probably take the plunge (nothing ventured nothing gained and all that) ... but I’m not going to bet a large chunk of my savings, or my families security, on a luxury item product that’s dependent on a good economy and people having both money to burn and space to spare … at least not without some assurance that I’ll make the money I’ve invested back.
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made for slow and controlled growth, rather than betting the whole farm at one shot ... not that that's what you were suggesting.
Putting together a show is very different then putting together a mass produced model kit or pre-painted statue. Let’s compare … you lost what a few thousand dollars … for the sake of argument; lets say you lost $20K on putting together that show.
Now lets compare costs:
And BTW, the days of Randy Bowen being the only game in town, so he got these pieces done on the cheap are long over. Most of the factories in these countries are now actually having to pay higher wages to their workers, because the workers have figured out that they can make as much or more money working at international McDonalds, than living in the sweat shops of old. So costs are way higher now than there were back in the late 80's when companies like Bowen were making runs of 10,000 and 20,000 pieces ... most smaller companies today struggle to sell edition sizes in the 500's. Heck, even Bowen ended his company's final Marvel license barely selling 300 pieces made to order directly from their website.
First, there's the issue of licensing, depending on the subject matter, that could cost anywhere from $300.00 to $300,000.00 dollars. You can go the route of original subject matters, but they don’t always tend to sell as well, because you need something to give the buyers reference. This is why I’m working on my Graphic Novel for the Denizens of Zo, using the proceeds from the (hopefully) sales of the kits to fund the development of the GN, which will then fund the creation of the prepaints from the model kits which I already own.
Licensing .. lets go low and say $10,000 for a 3 year contract on a reasonably well enough known subject matter.
Once you've shelled out the upfront costs for the license (if any), you have to pay for the sculpture, if it's digital, you also have to pay for the printing, then molding, casting, painting of 3 samples … 1 for you to keep, 2 to go to the factory for color matching and 1 broken down clean submaster for molding. Once at the factory, there’s box engineering, "plate charges" for the housing (sponge or styrofoam) inside the boxes, and I'm sure there are a few more costs that I’m forgetting off the top of my head. Oh, and did I mention that most factories won't do runs of prepaints smaller than 250 units, with a "better" discount at 500 units? They may do a smaller run of unpainted model kits, along side a prepaint, but you're still going to be paying a lot of costs for them.
Now lets say sculpt 3K, digital printing on a nice 1/6 scale size piece 2K, molding and casting, another 2K, painting of the 3 pieces for color matching another 2K. Keep in mind, these are all lowball figures.
Box engineering, plate charges, you’re easily looking at another 4 to 5K … 250 units at 100 per (again REALLY lowball I think), so that’s 25K.
Oh, and the best part … all the factories in China and Japan (unless you're an established business) will ask for at least 50% up front, and 50% upon completion ... not delivery, but completion. Which means, you no pay, day no ship.
After that, there are freight and import fees, to get the merchandise to the US.
That’s going to run at least another 2 to 3K … so right here, your total is already up to 50K.
Keep in mind, that all of that money has to be shelled out before you even receive the product to sell.
Doing the math … 50K in costs divided by 250 units, that makes your "basic" cost of goods $200.00 per unit ... making a basic 30% mark up that means you're item is going to have to retail at, at least $260.00.
That doesn’t even take into account the advertising fees for Previews and/or other publications to promote the product. And once that’s all done, there’s the costs of employees, insurance, your time, rent for housing all that inventory until such time as it sells, packaging the product for shipping, unless you’re lucky enough to have a product large enough to come prepackaged from Asia, in which case all you have to do is slap an new label on it ... in that case .. Yay you!
Now if you want to put together an injection molded plastic model kit, you're talking way higher costs for steel molds, probably a lot more for licensing of a more familiar product that will appeal to a larger audience such as Star Trek, Star Wars or other historical vessel (not sure about the licensing costs on historical vessels to be honest), a WAY higher edition size probably numbering in the 1000's, and keep in mind, since those packages don't weigh much, you're going to get charged for "dimensional freight" ... so in the end, I would think that the costs would end up being similar, but plastic kits while higher in volume sell for way less on the open market, so you're going to have to sell a #$#$#$# ton of them to make the same amount of money as a limited prepaint.
I don't know about you, but I know very few people (at least in this hobby) that kind of working capital in the bank, and even fewer that would be willing to take that sort of gamble.
Just for the record, I’m a gambling man myself, if I had no one to answer to, I would probably take the plunge (nothing ventured nothing gained and all that) ... but I’m not going to bet a large chunk of my savings, or my families security, on a luxury item product that’s dependent on a good economy and people having both money to burn and space to spare … at least not without some assurance that I’ll make the money I’ve invested back.
There's a perfectly valid argument to be made for slow and controlled growth, rather than betting the whole farm at one shot ... not that that's what you were suggesting.
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
- Posts: 18
- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
The question then becomes... what's your reason for being in business?
To do it as a side hobby.... or make it as a business owner and compete at a higher lever.
And as I stated above... and you also stated...most producers now are hobbyist who do this as a sid gig with. No intention of growing it to the next level. Not like the older days.
That being said... niche is all it will be....if niche is the focus.
Again. The owner of moebius ...is one of the only company's from bsck in the day who is still.around and decided to risk to do so... now I do t know what his volume is.. but it's enough at that level for him to continue...and he risks accordingly to do so...
Putting a show together. Business wise is no different than starting a company outright...its just the nature of the product your pushing... one a show...one a tangible product.. .
If you do both.. the show falls under advertising fees.
That's how sideshow justified it back in the day.. they couldn't afford to cold mail all these potential.clients. so they staged a show with their name at the top of the marauee..and it brought clients to them ...and the rest...is history... it got their name out there... brought them clients.. and then they moved on to bigger projects..
Natural growth... and risk...it wasn't easy but it's not impossible. And it's up to the producers to decide what they want and how they want it....and the current state of the hobby ,numbers of and types of shows and location..reflect that.
To do it as a side hobby.... or make it as a business owner and compete at a higher lever.
And as I stated above... and you also stated...most producers now are hobbyist who do this as a sid gig with. No intention of growing it to the next level. Not like the older days.
That being said... niche is all it will be....if niche is the focus.
Again. The owner of moebius ...is one of the only company's from bsck in the day who is still.around and decided to risk to do so... now I do t know what his volume is.. but it's enough at that level for him to continue...and he risks accordingly to do so...
Putting a show together. Business wise is no different than starting a company outright...its just the nature of the product your pushing... one a show...one a tangible product.. .
If you do both.. the show falls under advertising fees.
That's how sideshow justified it back in the day.. they couldn't afford to cold mail all these potential.clients. so they staged a show with their name at the top of the marauee..and it brought clients to them ...and the rest...is history... it got their name out there... brought them clients.. and then they moved on to bigger projects..
Natural growth... and risk...it wasn't easy but it's not impossible. And it's up to the producers to decide what they want and how they want it....and the current state of the hobby ,numbers of and types of shows and location..reflect that.
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
I can't (and wouldn't presume to) speak for anyone else, but in so far as I'm concerned ... at first when I was doing unlicensed superhero kits, is was a hobby, a way to have fun and maybe make a little extra dollars here and there ... BOY was I wrong on the latter.
Now, with my paint line, and my original concept kits, I'm trying to build it into a larger business, one that one day I can sustain myself and my family on. The only difference with me is, I'm choosing to do it with a plan in place, in a specific order, and in a way that I won't have to bet the whole farm on all at once.
If it works, awesome ... if it doesn't, at least I won't be any worse off than I am now.
Now, with my paint line, and my original concept kits, I'm trying to build it into a larger business, one that one day I can sustain myself and my family on. The only difference with me is, I'm choosing to do it with a plan in place, in a specific order, and in a way that I won't have to bet the whole farm on all at once.
If it works, awesome ... if it doesn't, at least I won't be any worse off than I am now.
Last edited by Jesse321 on July 10th, 2017, 7:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
- Posts: 18
- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
There are those that look at a scenario and see all.the reasons why something CANT be done and stay put.. and then others who see the obstacles and go for it anyway...
It's the second that set the tone and trend.. it's those people that originated Wonderfest , MMP back in the day, Jerseyfest.. and Monsterpalooza now.
It's not about Not risking ...its about calculated risk...
It's the second that set the tone and trend.. it's those people that originated Wonderfest , MMP back in the day, Jerseyfest.. and Monsterpalooza now.
It's not about Not risking ...its about calculated risk...
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
And that's exactly what I'm doing ... I've calculated what risks I'm willing to (for now) take, and formulated a plan that will get me from point A to point B, with the amount of risk that I find acceptable.
Using your own example, neither Wonderfest nor Jerseyfest started out being what they are ... both started as small gatherings of like minded people and eventually once enough of a foundation had been built, they became what they are today. But even that took time ... Jerseyfest started in Dave's basement, the 1st show was at a local school, then it was at a small hotel, then a larger hotel, and this year an even larger, more centrally located one. They took the time to build it, and people kept coming.
That's exactly what I'm doing, I'm building my foundation, with my kits, then a Graphic Novel, then maybe prepaints ... and who knows where things could go from there.
Yes, you're absolutely right that at some point in the future, I'm going to have to take a leap of faith, and just go for it ... but I'm not going to put the cart before the horse, I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it.
Using your own example, neither Wonderfest nor Jerseyfest started out being what they are ... both started as small gatherings of like minded people and eventually once enough of a foundation had been built, they became what they are today. But even that took time ... Jerseyfest started in Dave's basement, the 1st show was at a local school, then it was at a small hotel, then a larger hotel, and this year an even larger, more centrally located one. They took the time to build it, and people kept coming.
That's exactly what I'm doing, I'm building my foundation, with my kits, then a Graphic Novel, then maybe prepaints ... and who knows where things could go from there.
Yes, you're absolutely right that at some point in the future, I'm going to have to take a leap of faith, and just go for it ... but I'm not going to put the cart before the horse, I'll just cross that bridge when I get to it.
Last edited by Jesse321 on July 10th, 2017, 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
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- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
one of the things sideshow did....was they knew they were a smaller company. competing with larger established companies...so...as a way of competing...instead of trying to go out and compete ...and get clients ....they staged a show ( at great expense) like no other show at the time had been experience in this hobby....and put their name at the top of the Marquue...which served two purposes...it got THEIR NAME as a company and producer out there in a way they couldnt do previously.....AND...it brought the clients TO THEM..... so they didnt have to do much footwork as far as the hunt was concerned...now mind you...there were..in the marketplace...larger companies present ( who have all since closed their doors) so now you mainly have just garage kit companies manning the marketplace....
and as I said....if your company wants to grow, and see the hobby itself grow....and return to what it once was.... there needs to be a collective or producers with the same mentality....
remember... Sideshow technically started in 91 ( under the BARKER BROTHERS name and produced the jersey devil kit and sideshow freaks line) Then they produced their first show in April of 94.....which planning started a year previous in 93...so...from company inception.....to first show....was 3+ years..... and the owners were all married, some had kids....but collectively....they took a huge risk....
its that risk that will grow the hobby once again....
As far as the west coast is concerned...theres not as much interest in doing so..... so i encourage my east coast enthusiasts to continue on fighting the good fight and you Jesse, are one of em doing that!
and as I said....if your company wants to grow, and see the hobby itself grow....and return to what it once was.... there needs to be a collective or producers with the same mentality....
remember... Sideshow technically started in 91 ( under the BARKER BROTHERS name and produced the jersey devil kit and sideshow freaks line) Then they produced their first show in April of 94.....which planning started a year previous in 93...so...from company inception.....to first show....was 3+ years..... and the owners were all married, some had kids....but collectively....they took a huge risk....
its that risk that will grow the hobby once again....
As far as the west coast is concerned...theres not as much interest in doing so..... so i encourage my east coast enthusiasts to continue on fighting the good fight and you Jesse, are one of em doing that!
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Good luck with that ... it will never happen, at least not in a large scale. Unfortunately, there are WAY too many egos standing in the way.MadModelParty wrote: there needs to be a collective or producers with the same mentality....
You MIGHT be able to find a couple of people, either with no differences, or at least willing to set aside their differences for a small collaborative effort ... but on a large scale ... not a chance.
Last edited by Jesse321 on July 10th, 2017, 8:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
- Posts: 18
- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Jesse...you indeed are right.... the key difference between then and now in terms of participants...goes back to my very first post on this thread....about why people participate now as opposed to back then..i back then...it was about Art first....and Business second, and Fun all the way around as an extension....now its about Fun...and being Seen and praised for your art first......having the Ego fed , territoriality etc....
and one of the key reasons alot of the older participants and heavy hitters in the hobby to begin with...have moved on..... the clique mentality rules the Hobby.....not the Art and craft itself....
and one of the key reasons alot of the older participants and heavy hitters in the hobby to begin with...have moved on..... the clique mentality rules the Hobby.....not the Art and craft itself....
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
I could not possibly agree with you more about the "clique mentality" ... it's worked my F**KIN nerves for years.
Funny, I'm actually in preliminary talks with another producer about doing a class together, his kit, my paints ... don't know if anything will come of it, but either way, I'm fully intending to have another class at next years Wonderfest ... if they decide to back out ... I already have 3 or 4 possible kits coming up to use in the class.
Funny, I'm actually in preliminary talks with another producer about doing a class together, his kit, my paints ... don't know if anything will come of it, but either way, I'm fully intending to have another class at next years Wonderfest ... if they decide to back out ... I already have 3 or 4 possible kits coming up to use in the class.
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
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- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
my original intent with MMP was to celebrate the art of "all things model building"....the blowback i got from that was huge...especially from the group here in LA that focuses solely on sci, fi fantasy and horror.....and why they are now trying to make their own show...
i didnt care about the shape of the plastic or materials being used...just as long as people are building models and being creative no matter the genre...but to them...its Genre first....which inherently lends to segregation etc... the clique...
and their show will be predominantly genre based...which goes to my point about competition with genre shows locally...already supporting the subject matter ( monsterpalooza etc.)
i didnt care about the shape of the plastic or materials being used...just as long as people are building models and being creative no matter the genre...but to them...its Genre first....which inherently lends to segregation etc... the clique...
and their show will be predominantly genre based...which goes to my point about competition with genre shows locally...already supporting the subject matter ( monsterpalooza etc.)
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Jesse321
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
That's ridiculous ... but hey ... Good Luck to em, they'll "figure" out that limiting the show to any 1 genre is going to be a huge mistake soon enough.
That's one of the biggest reasons that Wonderfest and Jersyefest have both flourished, because all sorts of models are welcome. I was very surprised to see so many Gundam's and Anime kits at Wonderfest this year, it was really refreshing to see something different, and not a bunch of the same old, same old.
While I myself may not produce miniatures, ships, or horror kits, I still admire them, and the incredible amount of work that goes into building them, especially the ships!! Hell, I've even branched out and bought a few vessel kits to try my hand at building a few, now that I've got the Star Trek paints and a line of Star Wars paints in development. In order for me to be able to sell the product with any level of conviction, I have to at least try them myself, so ... here goes nothing.
That's one of the biggest reasons that Wonderfest and Jersyefest have both flourished, because all sorts of models are welcome. I was very surprised to see so many Gundam's and Anime kits at Wonderfest this year, it was really refreshing to see something different, and not a bunch of the same old, same old.
While I myself may not produce miniatures, ships, or horror kits, I still admire them, and the incredible amount of work that goes into building them, especially the ships!! Hell, I've even branched out and bought a few vessel kits to try my hand at building a few, now that I've got the Star Trek paints and a line of Star Wars paints in development. In order for me to be able to sell the product with any level of conviction, I have to at least try them myself, so ... here goes nothing.
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needful1one
- Registered Seller
- Posts: 3314
- Joined: February 7th, 2004, 7:22 am
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
MadModelParty wrote:my original intent with MMP was to celebrate the art of "all things model building"....the blowback i got from that was huge...especially from the group here in LA that focuses solely on sci, fi fantasy and horror.....and why they are now trying to make their own show...
i didnt care about the shape of the plastic or materials being used...just as long as people are building models and being creative no matter the genre...but to them...its Genre first....which inherently lends to segregation etc... the clique...
and their show will be predominantly genre based...which goes to my point about competition with genre shows locally...already supporting the subject matter ( monsterpalooza etc.)
You had a lot of intent. You keep speaking of it but you didn't give dealers the confidence to invest in a show that you didn't invest in. You had well over a year to advertise this event in AFM and then follow up with your own webpage and FB and other social media outlets. You did neither. I kept going back to your webpage to see any updates and see how the show was coming together and what guests you were bring. " Crickets" How did you expect people to come and support a show you didn't even spend money on sponsoring? Or were they supposed to call you and send a check to help you get it going?
Then to say you needed 10 tables sold to secure the room? Wtf? If you do not put a deposit down no hotel will take you serious and help you with your venue space.
You keep talking about old companies that no longer exist and are no longer here to support and sponsor events. And LEGO kids getting interested. Listen this has always been an Adult hobby. And of course there have been some that have grown into the hobby but if you want to risk your money on kids picking up a model when now a days the only thing their attention is on is XBox,Netflix and PS4....you will lose. This is an adult hobby it always has and always will be.
-Robb
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MadModelParty
- Brush Jockey
- Posts: 18
- Joined: August 3rd, 2016, 9:03 pm
Re: Why is Wonderfest Held Where It Is Every Year?
Robb,
1. I placed full page Ads in in issues 61 and 62 of AMAZING FIGURE MODELER..... at personal expense for those ads, and was on the fence about issue #63 which its deadline for ad submission overlapped for return on deposit should I not meet my minimum vendor numbers.
2. I placed 1/4 page Ads in every issue over that year leading up to the same deadline ( February 2017) in the IPMS magazine at personal expense for those ads.
3. I paid for the official Trademarking of the official MAD MODEL PARTY NAME at over $1000.00 of personal expense so that it would be a legitimate business venture.
4. I spent another couple grand iN setting up the .LLC and all applicable business licenses and insurances to make sure i had legal footing to set the show up properly. meeting with lawyers to do so.
5. I purchased the domain names and website at personal expense...luckily I build websites so I built the FACEBOOK website, Official website and did all artwork myself at personal time.
6. I personally sent out over 2000 emails to comic book shops, vendors and hobby stores and individuals throughout California . at personal time and expense.
7. I spent $2000.00 doing facebook sponsored ads.
8. I designed and purchased a short run series of shirts and other swag @ roughly &1500.00 I gave away for free to local hobby clubs here in southern California and via giveaways on the Facebook page.
9. Nowhere did I say I needed 10 tables to have a show...I needed a minimum of 40. I dont know where you got that 10 number from....
10. I spent over $2000.00... having specialized trophies made for the model contest.
And then there was the down I paid to secure the venue itself.....of which...that was the only expense I recovered out of over 20,000.00 dollars I personally invested to stage the show....
luckily that kicked over to a tax write off once the show didnt proceed
from a list of your complaints...I really dont think you actually did ANY research into what went into putting things together for the return of MMP...as everyone of your complaints do not ring true in light of facts.. so It appears you're just armchair quarterbacking with no actual knowledge of what was happening on the playing field...during the game...
As for this being an adult hobby???wrong again...its what it MORPHED into...were you an adult the first time you bought a model kit? an aurora kit??? a lego kit? no.....you and most model builders were CHILDREN....heck...do they stiill do pinewood derbys in boy scouts ???YES!!!!! pinewood derby IS MODEL BUILDING!!!
And now the hobby of model building is dominated by children who grew up...and carried with them the clique mentality of youth...playing in their own little section of the sandbox , not playing nicely with others or having a desire to beyond their clique ...be it adults, figure modelers , vehicular modelers or what have you...
LEGO...a construction based toy...comes in plastic....in a box...of unassembled parts.....with assembly instructions that let you make what you see on the packaging......
sounds like a model kit to me....and again...the LEGO company is the NUMBER 1 toy company in the world...ACROSS ALL AGE BRACKETS!!!...... there was a time model kits were sold in the biggest cross product consumer product retails in the US...toys R Us etc.....now only Bandai is being sold in those larger chain stores
I'm a parent...And I have my child building model kits because im CHOOSING to invest in a new generation...like I was invested into by the older generation before me...you...it appears are not....and have no desire to...so...the hobby dies out...with you...and those like you.....
I choose to think and act differently...Its the educator in me..... and know that the craft exists well beyond myself.. thats why I risked, fiscally and otherwise...where other criticize...and do not......
Im a hobbyist AND a BUSINESSMAN...and im not willing to invest more than I did...in a venture that doesnt yield a return that makes it viable to continue year after year....and as I posted above...they types of shows you get out here...and the amount of participation....mirror what the California and west of the Rockies market can bare. And the year of research and investment into that...confirmed what others ( who are deeply embedded in the hobby ) had told me about the changes in the hobby since the 90s.....and specifically the west coast market for the hobby.
1. I placed full page Ads in in issues 61 and 62 of AMAZING FIGURE MODELER..... at personal expense for those ads, and was on the fence about issue #63 which its deadline for ad submission overlapped for return on deposit should I not meet my minimum vendor numbers.
2. I placed 1/4 page Ads in every issue over that year leading up to the same deadline ( February 2017) in the IPMS magazine at personal expense for those ads.
3. I paid for the official Trademarking of the official MAD MODEL PARTY NAME at over $1000.00 of personal expense so that it would be a legitimate business venture.
4. I spent another couple grand iN setting up the .LLC and all applicable business licenses and insurances to make sure i had legal footing to set the show up properly. meeting with lawyers to do so.
5. I purchased the domain names and website at personal expense...luckily I build websites so I built the FACEBOOK website, Official website and did all artwork myself at personal time.
6. I personally sent out over 2000 emails to comic book shops, vendors and hobby stores and individuals throughout California . at personal time and expense.
7. I spent $2000.00 doing facebook sponsored ads.
8. I designed and purchased a short run series of shirts and other swag @ roughly &1500.00 I gave away for free to local hobby clubs here in southern California and via giveaways on the Facebook page.
9. Nowhere did I say I needed 10 tables to have a show...I needed a minimum of 40. I dont know where you got that 10 number from....
10. I spent over $2000.00... having specialized trophies made for the model contest.
And then there was the down I paid to secure the venue itself.....of which...that was the only expense I recovered out of over 20,000.00 dollars I personally invested to stage the show....
luckily that kicked over to a tax write off once the show didnt proceed
from a list of your complaints...I really dont think you actually did ANY research into what went into putting things together for the return of MMP...as everyone of your complaints do not ring true in light of facts.. so It appears you're just armchair quarterbacking with no actual knowledge of what was happening on the playing field...during the game...
As for this being an adult hobby???wrong again...its what it MORPHED into...were you an adult the first time you bought a model kit? an aurora kit??? a lego kit? no.....you and most model builders were CHILDREN....heck...do they stiill do pinewood derbys in boy scouts ???YES!!!!! pinewood derby IS MODEL BUILDING!!!
And now the hobby of model building is dominated by children who grew up...and carried with them the clique mentality of youth...playing in their own little section of the sandbox , not playing nicely with others or having a desire to beyond their clique ...be it adults, figure modelers , vehicular modelers or what have you...
LEGO...a construction based toy...comes in plastic....in a box...of unassembled parts.....with assembly instructions that let you make what you see on the packaging......
sounds like a model kit to me....and again...the LEGO company is the NUMBER 1 toy company in the world...ACROSS ALL AGE BRACKETS!!!...... there was a time model kits were sold in the biggest cross product consumer product retails in the US...toys R Us etc.....now only Bandai is being sold in those larger chain stores
I'm a parent...And I have my child building model kits because im CHOOSING to invest in a new generation...like I was invested into by the older generation before me...you...it appears are not....and have no desire to...so...the hobby dies out...with you...and those like you.....
I choose to think and act differently...Its the educator in me..... and know that the craft exists well beyond myself.. thats why I risked, fiscally and otherwise...where other criticize...and do not......
Im a hobbyist AND a BUSINESSMAN...and im not willing to invest more than I did...in a venture that doesnt yield a return that makes it viable to continue year after year....and as I posted above...they types of shows you get out here...and the amount of participation....mirror what the California and west of the Rockies market can bare. And the year of research and investment into that...confirmed what others ( who are deeply embedded in the hobby ) had told me about the changes in the hobby since the 90s.....and specifically the west coast market for the hobby.